Claiming a Place In Your Context
Dr. Brian Ammons and I continue our conversation about Wicked, vocation, faith, art, embodiment, individualism, and the false gods that stand in the way of our vocations.
Once again, I'm joined by Dr. Brian Ammons for Part 2 of our conversation on Wicked for Third Things First!
In this episode, Brian and I continue our conversation about Wicked, "Defying Gravity," and what happens when Elphaba’s story is read as a spiritual and vocational journey rather than as a solo rebellion anthem.
Drawing on queer theory, ministry experience, and mimetic theory, we look at how the Grimmerie functions as a sacred text in Oz, and also as a communal tradition that claims Elphaba into its rushing current rather than simply empowering her to “go it alone.” We touch on how Elphaba’s otherness becomes a gift for seeing what others refuse to see, why defiance grounded in deeper truth is different from hyper‑individualistic resistance, and how the casting of Cynthia Erivo’s Elphaba (and even her Jesus Christ Superstar performance) reshapes questions of race, gender, power, and embodiment.
Along the way, we reflect on how "false gods" contest our sense of vocation, and how we might build identities with others instead of against our idols.
If you care about Wicked, theology, queer spirituality, or peacebuilding, this episode invites you to see “defying gravity” as a call into a larger, older, wiser community of hope!
🔗 You can learn more about Dr. Brian Ammons through his work at The Porch!
📹 As always, you can watch this episode on our YouTube channel, or listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts!
👍 Wherever you watch or listen, please like, subscribe, comment, and share if you believe art can help mend our divided world!